years. >> okay, great. >> ad mail, direct mail, the most direct way to get to your eyes better than tv, radio, anything educational. that's stable. it's moving up with the economy. >> okay. >> first class mail, you got two things going on. commercial first class, bills and statements sent. >> right. >> pretty stable. >> okay. >> first class bill payments drop at a rate -- >> just individual internet, paypal, all of that? >> people pay bills on line. you can't fight that. it's free. >> i understand. >> what's happening, put it in perspective, in ten years, we lost 60% of the volume, and just to put it in terms of revenue, 14 billion dollars of revenue for that revenue stream. if we didn't have that drop off, we wouldn't worry about prefunding health care. >> i understand. ..